6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

[Risen]

Also, for all the claims of muslim charity, where is the proof?

You mean you have never heard of

http://www.islamic-relief.com

or

http://www.mercy.org.my/

or

http://www.muhajabah.com/charity.htm

Tsk..tsk...tsk...

- MENJ

You misunderstand me. I'm asking why, according to your statistics, that there are so many homeless muslims when Islam makes a big play on thier charity?
There have been many muslim charities closed down in the US over the last couple of years because it was discovered the money was not going to the causes it was collected for but was instead being redirected to terrorists.

Why should anyone give money to muslim charities unless they want their money stolen?

Risen

[Risen]

Have you guys ever notice that when a muslim gets exposed and trashed (because he deserved it), he uses what Jesus taught to remind the Christians of their "unloving attitude"

Gee...I'm sorry, I thought I'm the one who was supposed to be the "barbarian" here and the Christians are supposed to be the ones who "love" their foes blindly, no matter the circumstances.

- MENJ

I'll correct your misunderstanding. There is nothing that says Christians are to love blindly. The Bible does say love your enemy. And I do, in a Christian fashion...that does not mean that I have to allow massive lies to go unchallenged.

blessings,
Risen

[Risen]

Come now, this doesn't even pass the laugh test.
I personally know people who have been persecuted in various countries, so it's not even the most laughable lie you attempt to perpetrate here.

Surely you are smart enough to know that this link is not even mine? I find your antagonism rather disturbing, especially since Christians are known for their "love thy neighbour" mantra.

- MENJ

The link was one you posted, was it not? Do you post things that you disagree with? Are you not willing to stand behind what you've posted?

I am not being antagonistic, I am letting you know that your posting of blatant lies causes Islam to be disgraced. I am letting you know, because I am assuming that you do not wish to be the cause of such massive disgrace to Islam. So what I'm saying is, your post, along with some from previous muslims here provide only one possible conclusion. If you wish to dispute the facts, or if you can possibly present some reason one should arrive at an alternate conclusion feel free to present your thoughts.

The Bible has a saying "By their fruits you shall know them". It means that you can judge better by someone's actions then by their words. Judging by your post (unless you care to recant it) as well as posts from other muslims one can only arrive at the conclusion that muslims are allowed to lie, swear and threaten violence. I asked last muslim that posted many posts of obscenities if I was to believe he was a good representative of Islam. I asked him if his posts were representative, and mixed in with his further threats and obscenities I was led to believe he claimed he was a good example of a Muslim. So, you tell me, are muslims allowed to lie? Are there any special circumstances where they are allowed to lie? Is obscene language ok within Islam? How about vile sexual comments? How about physical threats as well as internet terrorism threats? How about actually carrying those actions out?
What should one learn about Islam from the behavior of muslims?

Here's your chance to educate me.

Blessings,
Risen

[Risen]

While we're discussing persecution of Christians, although your post attempts to waive it off as if some persecution is fine...

As I mentioned, I know people who have suffered at the hands of muslims as well as other groups. I know a man who spent 30 years in prison in China because he was a Christian. He was tortured many times in what were called "struggle sessions".

I know ex-muslims from the middle east who have been beaten, and some threated with death.

There are children living in my city that were taken as slaves by the Sudanese forces and sold to muslims in the northern part of Sudan. They were beaten, the girls raped and they relate stories of how their families were murdered by the Islamic Sudanese government.

I have spoken with and heard speak aid workers and missionaries who have witnessed atrocities perpetrated by muslims against Christians. The stories would break you heart.

There are independant reports and documentation regarding the 2 MILLION Christians and animists of the south of Sudan who have been killed over the 20 years of the current Islamic regime.

So, I tell you, for your own good, posting articles that attempt to suggest Christians hold some sort of persecution complex based upon some ignorant muslim apologists misunderstanding of the Bible is both offensive personally as well as blantant to the point of being an act of evil in itself.

If you believe the article you posted, then you're massively disceived.
Does that make my thoughts clear to you on this topic?

Blessings,
Risen

[shalom]

Gee...I'm sorry, I thought I'm the one who was supposed to be the "barbarian" here and the Christians are supposed to be the ones who "love" their foes blindly, no matter the circumstances.

You have proven my point again.

[EROS]

By the Grace of my Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, I have finished translating the Al-Jazeera article about 6 million Muslims leavening Islam every year. The newly translated section (located in the first post of this thread) is in dark blue font. Please read the entire article and be amazed at how Muslims will give every excuse in the book about why Muslims leave Islam except the real reason: that people can honestly compare the two religions and choose Christianity over Islam. This, in the mind of the Muslim, is impossible. That is why this interviewee (Ahmad Katani) came up with so many conspiracy theories.

My next post on this thread will be an analysis of Ahmad Katani?s comments and rationalizations why Muslims should be stopped from converting to Christianity.

[ILJ]

Peace all,
Menj,

If you are so naive' as to believe that garbage, then I have a challenge for you.Go to Saudi Arabia, and carry a Bible with you, and tell them you are a Christian.You know what would happen?Decapitation! Unless you want to audition for the "Headless Horseman" in the Legend of Sleepy Hollow, no one could do that.We have heard of the public executions of beheading people for converting to Christ there, as well as massive tortures, hands/limbs chopped off etc...etc....etc......!!!!!

Tell us how many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia?


Peace and God bless

ILJ

[amnay]

Hello all

Dont forget the KABYLIAN population (northern Africa) who were and are alwys Atheist in their Majority. The arabic policy lie about their beliefs. They never were Muslim.
After arrival of Arabs oppressor in the 9th century A.J.c.

According to Ibn Khaldoun who said:
Arabics are like a swarm of locusts which destroy all after their passage. It dont reman popuation , neither language and neither habits.

[Risen]

Hello all

Dont forget the KABYLIAN population (northern Africa) who were and are alwys Atheist in their Majority. The arabic policy lie about their beliefs. They never were Muslim.
After arrival of Arabs oppressor in the 9th century A.J.c.

According to Ibn Khaldoun who said:
Arabics are like a swarm of locusts which destroy all after their passage. It dont reman popuation , neither language and neither habits.

Welcome to the message board amnay!

You're right. I've noticed that there isn't really any true census data to back up the claims of the number of muslims in the world. The more I've learned about Islam, and the nations it's most numerous in, the more I've seen that Islam is not some megalithic thing but rather a label that gets applied across quite a range of actual beliefs (many that would not be considered real Islam, but more animism-Islam mix) and I believe that there are many people who are labled muslim simply because of the geographic location but as the people you mention are simply within an area labeled "Islamic".

In one respect, Islam does itself a grave diservice with their policy of threatening to murder anyone who leaves Islam. That's because there are millions who leave, but do so secretly in fear...so the Islamic leadership has no real awareness of their own failings and membership losses.

Blessings,
Risen

[menj]

Peace all,
Menj,

If you are so naive' as to believe that garbage, then I have a challenge for you.Go to Saudi Arabia, and carry a Bible with you, and tell them you are a Christian.

Why on earth in the name of God would I want to do something like that?? I am not a Christian. I don't "carry a Bible" around with me, and I certainly have no wish to deceive people by pretending to be a "Christian".

- MENJ

[Risen]

Peace all,
Menj,

If you are so naive' as to believe that garbage, then I have a challenge for you.Go to Saudi Arabia, and carry a Bible with you, and tell them you are a Christian.

Why on earth in the name of God would I want to do something like that?? I am not a Christian. I don't "carry a Bible" around with me, and I certainly have no wish to deceive people by pretending to be a "Christian".

- MENJ

You say you've no wish to deceive...and yet are we to believe you don't understand the point being made?

Or are you willing to admit that Christians are persecuted in Saudia Arabia?

Blessings,
Risen

[menj]

Or are you willing to admit that Christians are persecuted in Saudia Arabia?

So you are telling me that the Filipinos working in Saudi homes and/or the American soldiers based there are NOT Christians??

I believe that in Saudi Arabia, Christians are not allowed to proselytise to others. They are allowed to worship privately in their homes, however. So what is the "persecution" you are talking about?

- MENJ

[amnay]

.
Welcome to the message board amnay!

You're right. I've noticed that there isn't really any true census data to back up the claims of the number of muslims in the world. The more I've learned about Islam, and the nations it's most numerous in, the more I've seen that Islam is not some megalithic thing but rather a label that gets applied across quite a range of actual beliefs (many that would not be considered real Islam, but more animism-Islam mix) and I believe that there are many people who are labled muslim simply because of the geographic location but as the people you mention are simply within an area labeled "Islamic".

In one respect, Islam does itself a grave diservice with their policy of threatening to murder anyone who leaves Islam. That's because there are millions who leave, but do so secretly in fear...so the Islamic leadership has no real awareness of their own failings and membership losses.

Blessings,
Risen

Hello Risen!
Thanks for the nice words.
I'm totaly agree with your reasoning.
In fact, The Muslim Politicians all over the world lie about "the ethnic components" of their population in order to t make belileve (or make pretence) that there are several moslems in the world, for example" A DETERRENT POWER" if I can say that. For them that symbolizes a kind of "power" or pride against the other religions.
They often repeat that so as not to be made forget and say to others : "We are always here , you must look at us" , ''You should'nt forget that we reprezent the second world religion". Their goal were and is always the same:They want spread their "religion" all over the world and "Make arabs" all that moves.

But , in fact, The authorities of the moslem countries(as they say) do not want reveal figures because they are afraid to see the TRUTH.
When you saw that "their policy of threatening to murder anyone who leaves Islam" , It's truth. I confirm. kABYLIA That were Agnostic throughouts its history suffered from the quarrelsome and bitter Arabs. Their goal was (and always be) the Islamization of our population.

Unfortunately the occident continues to scorn us and to treat us "Moslems" ,That is UNACCEPTABLE.


High hopes.
Blessings

[Risen]

Or are you willing to admit that Christians are persecuted in Saudia Arabia?

So you are telling me that the Filipinos working in Saudi homes and/or the American soldiers based there are NOT Christians??

I believe that in Saudi Arabia, Christians are not allowed to proselytise to others. They are allowed to worship privately in their homes, however. So what is the "persecution" you are talking about?

- MENJ

Remind me, which church in Saudi Arabia do they worship together in? Whereas in the west, even in Rome, mosques are allowed to be built. There is no such allowances within Saudi Arabia...

Given the statements above made to the UN Human Rights commission's 56th sitting, it is evident that the Saudi's continue to mock the UN and the world by their blatant disregard - even for their own statements. They continue to abuse expatriates and their religious freedoms on their own soil while making big claims of openness to the world. In a world where religious rights are taken for granted, it appears that the Saudi continue in their intolerance of even small home-group meetings of Christians, while displaying an insidious air of freedom.

source; http://www.worthynews.com/news-features ... bia-1.html

Here's another one for you...

Amnesty International has documented 350 cases between 1992 and 1996 of Christian expatriates being arrested for taking part in private worship. Those arrested face lengthy imprisonment without trial, torture, and even death. The situation is even worse for Saudi nationals who are Christian. Saudi Arabia is understood to be exclusively Islamic. A Christian Saudi citizen is assumed apostate from Islam and automatically subject to death. Two Filipino Christians involved in Bible studies and Christian prayers in the Saudi prison where they were jailed were beheaded by the sword on May 4, 1997 in Riyadh.

source: http://www.serve.com/sonrise/silence/arabia.htm

You picked one of the absolute worst nations in the world for persecuation against Christians to defend here menj.

How many Saudi Christians do you believe there are, I'm just curious. Do you believe they are really left alone by the government 100% of the time?

If so, I have some great beach front property to sell you just off the east coast of Florida.

Blessings,
Risen

[menj]

Remind me, which church in Saudi Arabia do they worship together in? Whereas in the west, even in Rome, mosques are allowed to be built. There is no such allowances within Saudi Arabia...

Point to note, I am not trying to "defend" Saudi Arabia. It is being ruled by a myriad of Dictators who are concerned with their yatches and maintaining power, more than they are concerned about the welfare of the Ummah in general.

But I really DO NOT see what is the fuss is about. If you think Saudi Arabia "persecutes" Christians, then big deal. There are other countries you can go to. Why must it be Saudi??

- MENJ

[ILJ]

Peace all,

But I really DO NOT see what is the fuss is about. If you think Saudi Arabia "persecutes" Christians, then big deal. There are other countries you can go to. Why must it be Saudi??

Because Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, and is the most sacred to Muslims, thus the laws that are there are telling of Islam!

ILJ<><

[menj]

Because Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, and is the most sacred to Muslims, thus the laws that are there are telling of Islam!

There are Christians in Riyadh and Jeddah, AFAIK. There are even American bases there. I am sure Christian rituals are practiced at these places (under strict regulations, of course). But if the Catholic Church does not allow Islam to be practiced openly in the Vatican City, there should be no complaints from your end if we exalt Islam in the city of Makkah al-Mukarramah and the area surrounding it.

But I guess Christians are fond of "bitching" about things but fail to put their own house in order...

- MENJ

[Risen]

Because Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, and is the most sacred to Muslims, thus the laws that are there are telling of Islam!

There are Christians in Riyadh and Jeddah, AFAIK. There are even American bases there. I am sure Christian rituals are practiced at these places (under strict regulations, of course). But if the Catholic Church does not allow Islam to be practiced openly in the Vatican City, there should be no complaints from your end if we exalt Islam in the city of Makkah al-Mukarramah and the area surrounding it.

But I guess Christians are fond of "bitching" about things but fail to put their own house in order...

- MENJ

You say there are Christians in Riyadh and Jeddah...how many churches do they have to worship in? Would Islam allow anyone off the street to walk into a Christian Church and worship in the service?

To be honest, I don't know anything about what the Catholic church does or doesn't allow in Vatican City, but I do know that a couple miles over in Rome mosques ARE allowed and anyone who wishes to walk into those mosques and worship allah may do so. Would you advocate for Islam to allow the same openess in the rest of the Islamic world?

I wouldn't expect Islam to open a Church across the street from the kabaah, but Saudia Arabia is a very large country, many MANY times larger than Vatican City (and that's assuming your statement is accurate). But do you believe all Islamic governments should allow Christians Churches to be built and maintained within their boarders and allow anyone who wished to freedom to worship there?

Not bitching...it a simple, and irrfutable fact that Islam is not open as the West is open to the free exchange of ideas and will not allow it's people to worship as they believe because Islam knows it can not compete next to Christianity if force weren't employed on the side of Islam.

Blessings,
Risen

[Catholic]

Good afternoon to everybody, well, in my opinion is very difficult to understand why 3 millions of christians( catholics or protestants) in Saudi Arabia, it?s very difficult, in addition who is the state of Saudi Arabia to not allow the building of churches or the envagelization, who? I think that the politics are one thing and the religion is another thing, and in all countries must be religious freedom, it?s fair, because all men are the same.
And if Arabia Saudi don?t allow this, we have to criticise and ask for our governments, that they ask for reciprocity.

PS: Excuse me my english

Greetings

[Risen]

Good afternoon to everybody, well, in my opinion is very difficult to understand why 3 millions of christians( catholics or protestants) in Saudi Arabia, it?s very difficult, in addition who is the state of Saudi Arabia to not allow the building of churches or the envagelization, who? I think that the politics are one thing and the religion is another thing, and in all countries must be religious freedom, it?s fair, because all men are the same.
And if Arabia Saudi don?t allow this, we have to criticise and ask for our governments, that they ask for reciprocity.

PS: Excuse me my english

Greetings

Welcome to the message boards. I understood your english, have no fear.
Your point makes sense, but it isn't likely to come about. The "god" of this world is in control of Saudia Arabia, and he's not concerned about reasonable, rational or fair. He's simply the father of lies.

Blessings,
Risen