6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

For all who rejected Islam, whatever their believes now.

Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby John 10:10 on Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:05 pm

AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: What are the right questions?

Like I said, if you don't already know the right questions, you are not ready for the right answers.

If you are interested, you can start with the Acts 16:30 question.

Then you can follow this with the John 6:28 question.

If you are not interested in God's salvation in Christ Jesus, then we're just wasting our time and yours.


AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: I can prove from the holy Bible that Jesus did not die on the cross. He survived crucifixion and went on to live many years after crucifixion.

Your so-called proof lies in someone who lived 600 years after the eyewitness accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John & Acts, someone who said his sayings were verified by the Scriptures that came before him. But I am interested to know where in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John & Acts it tells of Muhammad's accounts that Jesus did not die on the cross. He survived crucifixion and went on to live many years after crucifixion.
John 14:6, "I (Jesus) am the Way (of life), the Truth (of life), and the Life (of life). No man comes to the Father (God) but by Me."
John 10:10
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby newseed on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:48 pm

22 Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade.
24 The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one."
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'?
35 If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'?
37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
(John 10:22-39 (NIV), courtesy of Bible Gateway)

First, let's get one thing clear: Jesus considered himself to be the one and only Son of God, as is clear from many other references.

Now, what of the incident in John 10?

Jesus said 'I and the Father are one'. His opponents reply,

"We are stoning you... for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Now what is often missed is that there are TWO ways that he could have defused this charge of blasphemy:

(1) By showing that he did not claim to be God; or

(2) By showing that it is not NECESSARILY blasphemy to claim to be God.

Which did he do? It was not (1) (as many people seem to suggest), but (2)!

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'? If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came - and the Scripture cannot be broken - what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?"

Surely the thrust of Jesus' reply is clear: if it's not blasphemy for part of their Law (Psalm 82) to call certain people 'gods', surely it is not blasphemy if applied to Jesus.

The obvious corollary is this: Jesus is more worthy to be called 'god' than any of the addressees of Psalm 82. Why is he greater? Because he called himself:

the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world

And then in the next sentence, he put it even stronger:

I am God's Son

This passage is also notable for what Jesus did NOT say. If Jesus wanted to avoid the charge of blasphemy by denying he was God (defense (1) above), he could very easily have done so. But he did not. Rather, he showed (by quoting Psalm 82) that the claim to be God was not IN ITSELF blasphemous. His reply could be paraphrased, "It is not blasphemy to call someone 'god' if they deserve the title."

He then showed how he DID deserve the title, by describing himself as "the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world", "God's Son", and by saying "the Father is in me, and I in the Father".

Jesus' opponents understood this claim clearly, so they tried to arrest him anyway (v.39). They followed his reasoning alright, they just didn't believe the claims he made about himself. Therefore they reasoned (correctly, if Jesus' claims were false), that Jesus was guilty of blasphemy.

An Apologetic Study of John 10:34-36
http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/jn10-34-36.html


An Examination of Jesus’ Use of Psalm 82:6
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/john10_34-36.htm


Let's put Luke 6 in context:

"Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete." Luke 6:46-49

"Then they asked him, ‘What must we do to do the works God requires?’ Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.’" John 6:28-29

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/lords_prayer.htm


In regards to Mark 2:10

In the book of the Prophet Daniel in chapter 7 we find:

13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
15 "I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me.
16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this. "So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things:
17 `The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth....
... (some explanation of the first part of the vision, concerning world history) ...

24 ... After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. (probably the Anti-Christ)
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.
26 "`But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever.
27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'
28 "This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself."


Now, who will be worshiped?
The "Son of Man" figure (verse 14),
the "Most High" (=God) (verse 27)
Who will have eternal dominion and sovereign power? (verses 14 & 27)

These are arguably only honors and characteristics of God, the only sovereign Lord of all creation. But somehow this "son of man" is intimately related to him.

Jesus is not calling himself ever 'a son of man', he is calling himself THE Son of Man. And does so persistently hundreds of times. In the Daniel passage, this is not yet really a title, just a term of comparison when he says 'like a' son of man. He sees a vision and describes what he sees. And this awe inspiring figure looks like a human being but he obviously seems to be much more. Jesus takes this 'description' and turns it into a title for himself. (Probably/maybe because most of the other Old Testament Messianic titles have been filled by the Jews already with lots of wrong expectations of the Messiah to be a political figure, who would liberate Israel from the Roman rule etc, but Jesus' mission at his first coming was different. And therefore he uses this title that hasn't had any preconceived notions and wrong expectations attached to it.)

http://www.answering-islam.org/Trinity/t3jd1.html


Now in regards to your rubbish:

Jesus Travelled to India?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Ahmadiyya/notovich.htm

http://www.answering-islam.org/Pagan/doane.html

Ahmaddiyya in the Balance
http://www.answering-islam.org/Ahmadiyya/balance.html

http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/masood.html

http://www.answering-islam.org/Ahmadiyya/

And finally, what happened to the 1000 year millinium that is suppose to be nothing but peace? Where's the new 1400 cubic miles city of Jerusalem? And what about the new heaven and new earth thereafter?

http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/2nd_coming.html

After all that and what John 10:10 has been preaching to you since the beginning, you have no authority to interpret the Scriptures when you clearly deny the Bible that is historically much older than your evidence. You are simply doing the work of Satan.
Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man"

John 14:7 "If ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him."
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby AhmadiyyaIslam on Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:17 pm

John 10:10 wrote:
AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: What are the right questions?

Like I said, if you don't already know the right questions, you are not ready for the right answers.

So one has to be born with a knowledge of all the right questions???

If you are not interested in God's salvation in Christ Jesus, then we're just wasting our time and yours.


Jesus Christ could not do anything for himself, how can he be a source of salvation for me or anyone else?

AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: I can prove from the holy Bible that Jesus did not die on the cross. He survived crucifixion and went on to live many years after crucifixion.

Your so-called proof lies in someone who lived 600 years after the eyewitness accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John & Acts, someone who said his sayings were verified by the Scriptures that came before him. But I am interested to know where in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John & Acts it tells of Muhammad's accounts that Jesus did not die on the cross. He survived crucifixion and went on to live many years after crucifixion.


Eyewitness accounts of Matthew, Mark, John and Luke..... are you sure about it???

How can Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) say in the gospels of new Testament when they were written way before his advent.
Jesus after surviving crucifixion went to India. The second coming of Jesus has been fulfilled in the person of Ahmad of India. 101 Questions about Christianity at http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000040.html
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby AhmadiyyaIslam on Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:36 pm

First, let's get one thing clear: Jesus considered himself to be the one and only Son of God, as is clear from many other references.

Surely the thrust of Jesus' reply is clear: if it's not blasphemy for part of their Law (Psalm 82) to call certain people 'gods', surely it is not blasphemy if applied to Jesus.

How can you compare your these two statements??

The "Son of Man" figure (verse 14),
the "Most High" (=God) (verse 27)
Who will have eternal dominion and sovereign power? (verses 14 & 27)

These are arguably only honors and characteristics of God.... Are you sure about it????

Jesus is not calling himself ever 'a son of man', he is calling himself THE Son of Man. Does this in anyway change he was son of man???

Let's get this clear and then we can move on to the next part.
Jesus after surviving crucifixion went to India. The second coming of Jesus has been fulfilled in the person of Ahmad of India. 101 Questions about Christianity at http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000040.html
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby John 10:10 on Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:03 pm

AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: Let's get this clear and then we can move on to the next part.

Yes, let's get this clear! You may discuss Islam all you want, which you seem reluctant to do.

But if you want to discuss the things of Christ, you must start at the question posed to Christ in John 6:28,


"What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

If you are not willing to do this, your hours at this forum are numbered.
John 14:6, "I (Jesus) am the Way (of life), the Truth (of life), and the Life (of life). No man comes to the Father (God) but by Me."
John 10:10
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby AhmadiyyaIslam on Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:29 pm

"If you are not willing to do this, your hours at this forum are numbered."

I thought one has freedom to say what he feels like saying on this forum....

I came across a couple of youtube videos on the topic of "Survival of Crucifixion of Jesus Christ - in the light of the holy Bible" that I want to share.

Here are the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JIEeszMyoM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf4Rw24mAGc

ps: I am doing the works of God... To inform you and to inform the world about the truth of Jesus Christ's survival from crucifixion that Church has been hiding for the past several centuries is also God's work.
Jesus after surviving crucifixion went to India. The second coming of Jesus has been fulfilled in the person of Ahmad of India. 101 Questions about Christianity at http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000040.html
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby John 10:10 on Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:57 pm

AhmadiyyaIslam wrote: ps: I am doing the works of God... To inform you and to inform the world about the truth of Jesus Christ's survival from crucifixion that Church has been hiding for the past several centuries is also God's work.

I'm sorry but that's the wrong work of God. The right work of God is given in John 6:29,

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

The One that God sent declares this in John 10,

14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.


Since you have shown that you are unwilling to even consider God's work, but are only interested in proclaiming "another Gospel of Christ," you are hereby banned from this forum.

Go in peace.
John 14:6, "I (Jesus) am the Way (of life), the Truth (of life), and the Life (of life). No man comes to the Father (God) but by Me."
John 10:10
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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby vwilliamson on Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:28 am

It is clear that the missionaries are selling these kind of images for the sole purpose of duping Muslims from non-Arabic speaking background. These Biblical images have also clearly been purposely portrayed with the style of calligraphy to mirror that of the usual Qur'?nic calligraphy familiar to these Muslims who will hence find it difficult to distinguish the two

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Re: 6 Million Muslims LEAVE Islam every year!!!

Postby John 10:10 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:04 pm

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Not sure what kind of images you think Christian missionaries sell. The only ones I'm aware of are is that we present Jesus crucified for our sins, and then we are saved by His resurrection life.

Blessings
John 14:6, "I (Jesus) am the Way (of life), the Truth (of life), and the Life (of life). No man comes to the Father (God) but by Me."
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